News.Kyiv.Me.

Peter Lavelle was joined by:

Marcus Papadopoulos– editor and publisher of Politics First magazine (London)

Mark Sloboda – senior lecturer and researcher at Moscow State University (Msc)

Soundbites:

MP: “The crisis in Ukraine is not a matter of freedom vs. tyranny as it’s been projected by western journalists and western politicians. What it shows clearly is that it’s an attempt by the West, by the United States government to pull Ukraine away from Russia and into the West’s orbit. Why would it do that? Because the United States is attempting to place a sanitary cordon around the western borders of the Russia Federation. What evidence do we have of this? We have EU and NATO expansion eastwards; we have an American missile defence shield which is going to be constructed in Europe. Officially, it’s aimed at Iran, but that’s nonsense! We know that it’s actually aimed at Russia’s strategic nuclear deterrents. That is what Ukraine is all about.”

“If Ukraine was a tyranny, there wouldn’t be protesters out in the first place, let alone setting fire to police officers with Molotov cocktails, let alone beating them to the floor with baseball bats. We certainly don’t see that sort of behaviour in Saudi Arabia, which is a staunch American ally and truly is a dictatorship.”

MS: “At this point, even Yanukovych’s supporters are extremely disappointed and disenchanted with him. This is a split country – all recent polls show quite clearly that the country is split almost 50/50 towards a western orientation and towards a pro-Russian orientation. This is almost along geographic lines: the West vs. the East and the South.”

“There is a very strong ultra-nationalist right-wing faction, which is actually the vanguard and in control on the ground…”

MP: “I wouldn’t say I’m surprised that the mainstream press in the United Kingdom hasn’t picked up on it [Nuland’s phone call] in depth and there’s logic to that. It might be biased, but there is logic from their perspective. If they were to emphasise that conversation – and it was a dreadful conversation – it would support what the Russian government has been saying all along – that the West lead by the United States is playing a geostrategic game in Ukraine. It has nothing to do with human rights, it has nothing to do with democracy.”

“I think they [the leaders of the opposition] are stooges, and I think they’re willing stooges. They realise that without being subservient to the West they won’t stand any chance of achieving their objective, which is bringing down the democratically elected, legitimate government or president Yanukovych. It’s not in their interests not to bow down to the West.”

“The arguments that America genuinely stands for human rights and democracy are simply untenable. If that was the case, we’d see an American naval flotilla off the coast of Saudi Arabia.”

MS: “We need to be clear. The current government in the Ukraine has dropped in opinion polls. Both among their supporters, and even more strongly among the very forces of the opposition. They are not a popular government, but they are a legitimate democratically elected government with elections ruled free and fair, and largely above board – the best elections, perhaps, the Ukraine has seen since 1992 and independence. This government, when faced with an EU Association Agreement that amounted a radical neo-liberal shock therapy similar to the austerity measures that are being imposed on Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, they had originally intended to sign this Association Agreement, if the terms were better, but the economic damage to the Ukraine would have been enormous.”

MP: “With regards to the International Monetary Fund, the IMF is one of the most lethal weapons in America’s arsenal when it comes to achieving geostrategic objectives. I believe president Yanukovych is acutely aware of that, and of course, Russia is aware of that. During the 1990’s when Russia was in meltdown economically and politically, the IMF dictated to president Yeltsin exactly what sort of course that wanted him to follow. During The Kosovo War, when Russia was extremely concerned about the American presence there, whenever Yeltsin attempted to flex his muscles, Clinton would simply give him a call and threaten to withhold IMF loans. Yeltsin would back down.”

MS: “To talk about the Russian economic deal with the Ukraine as a bribe is absolutely absurd. Do we speak of the IMF loan as a bribe; do we speak about the six hundred million dollars, this paltry sum in the EU Association Agreement as a bribe?”

“Both sides offered an array of carrot-and-sticks to the Ukraine in an attempt to sway it into their geo-economic orientation. The Russian side had the resources and the political will to give a bigger array of carrots.”

MP: “No one would seriously argue that the EU and NATO don’t work hand in hand. All you have to do is take a map of Europe and have a look at it. All the countries on Russia’s Western borders are EU members and also NATO members. By Ukraine coming into the EU, but also NATO, would complete Russia’s encirclement. To some people that may seem sort of fantasy, Hollywood, but there are historical precedence to that. Let us not forget the British and the French fought The Crimean War to limit Russian influence in the Balkan and Black Sea region.”

MS: “The US and the EU are really stepping across what are Russia’s security red lines. Whether as a westerner you like the Russian government and Russian people or not, they have legitimate national security interests. They are a great power and nothing’s going to change that. By deliberately pushing these economic, political and military circles into direct border areas of Russia and the Ukraine – there has not been a country that has been historically, culturally, linguistically more tied to Russia, not only in terms of geopolitics, but in terms of identity, they are really escalating the situation. It’s been rhetorically said many times – a real return to the Cold War confrontation on newly created lines, ideologically and geopolitically closer to Russia.”

(VoR)